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Poster: He Live's Date: Jun 21, 2013 7:33pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: DYLAN & The DEAD

http://archive.org/details/gd1987-07-24.sbdAud.dad.97493.flac16

this is something i have had little to no interest in previously. but i was reading an interview with dylan from rolling stone where he talks about the dead showing him some "Ancient Technique" of playing guitar/music that opened a door for him and enabled him to access and play the older material the dead wanted him to do.

he spoke as though this changed him forever and enabled him to continue on in music.

i am wondering if anyone has any insight or has done more research on this.

it definitely has to do with the scale of the guitar, the way a guitar is set up... whereas piano is very linear... it has to do with the VERTICALITY of guitar,....


anyone? buehler?

OTHERWISE -- recommends on good D &D shows are welcome.



This post was modified by He Live's on 2013-06-22 02:33:10

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Poster: Dudley Dead Date: Jun 22, 2013 7:51am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: DYLAN & The DEAD

There has been some threads on this tour , that I can't find . The section in his book "Chronicles", in which he talks about this is rather obtuse, and even my musician friends wonder what he is on about . I have not read this RS interview . Dylan was a low point, and it took years for him to slowly build into something new . It does seem his stint with the Dead impressed him . So much so that after the 2/12/89 Forum show, he asked to join the band ! (Phil was the only veto vote ).
He did develop a, not always enjoyable, looseness toward his live playing, but it must have made it fun for him, he has been touring ever since .
I may be that his contact with Garcia & Co. let him view his songs as part of the musical past to be "covered", just as he started to do more and more covers of folk/blues etc. into his concerts . Not having to live up to being "Dylan", the guy who wrote THOSE song . John Lennon said that, during his non writing period, he was intimated by his past "I'm the guy that wrote Day In the Life" . Getting past that allowed he to start writing again .
As for recommendations for the D&D tour, some feel they got better as they went on . The Anaheim show 7/26/87 featured a very nice "Chimes of Freedom", and "Queen Jane" .
http://archive.org/details/gd1987-07-26.nak700.yamaguchi-poris.russjcan.98214.flac16
This tour is better than it's reputation (LOW), but it was a disappointment .

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Poster: ChanceofaLifetime Date: Jun 22, 2013 6:30am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: DYLAN & The DEAD

I've never been sure about the guitar scale thing. In his autobiography, Chronicles Volume 1, he mentions becoming fed up with how the rehearsals were going to the point of saying he was going for a walk. With no intention of actually returning, he stopped by a little bar where a band was playing. He says that something in the way the band was playing old staples prompted him to go back to club front. The remainder of the rehearsal is when Bob claims to have had a revelation that made it easier to play his classics. I've always thought that the revelation he speaks of is the idea that a song can be new every time you play it. At least, the way I see it, that's been the most noticeable change in Dylans playing since playing with the dead.

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Poster: leftwinger57 Date: Jun 24, 2013 10:05am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: DYLAN & The DEAD

A little off the thread only because Dylan has no part in this. One morning about 11:00 Jerry was alone on stage at the Warfield.This was not a sound check I think Jerry just loosening it up a bit playing nothing but scales .No songs no melody just running scales.I had a ticket for that nights' show so I didn't care whether or not I was tossed and I wasn't and started to tec talk w/ one of the dudes there and I asked to see the macs.Since I seemed to know what I was talking about and Jerry finished up and the guy let me onstage w/ him and showed me some of the gear and then head roadie said listen dude we don't know who you are and we wouldn't want you to get electrocuted so please exit the theater toot sweet.

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Jun 22, 2013 7:52am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: DYLAN & The DEAD

I don't think that's quite what he said. In his book he said it was Lonnie Johnson who showed him a mysterious guitar technique that supposedly enabled him to play his songs in new ways. I don't think anyone has figured out what he's talking about, or if he's putting us on. At any rate it has nothing to do with the Dead.
He's said the Dead's influence was in that he'd lost all feelings for his songs at that point, and they were doing them better than he was, so they helped him reconnect to his material. They also helped inspire him to start performing all the time, as a way of staying connected as a performer, rather than doing the occasional tour like he was then.
Although in his book, he doesn't quite say that, but has the episode where he walks out of the Dead rehearsals, frustrated that they want to do all the old songs he's forgotten, and goes to see an old jazz singer at a club & has an epiphany about how to sing, and returns to the Dead rejuvenated. Most likely he made this up, but who knows.
Some quotes & info:
http://deadnews.blogspot.com/2005/08/more-on-bob-dylans-pier-15-epiphany.html
http://www.openculture.com/2012/08/bob_dylan_and_the_grateful_dead_rehearse_together_in_summer_1987_listen_to_74_tracks.html
http://furthur.net/forum/general-discussion/205138-dylan-and-the-dead
http://williamhenryprince.com/dylan-the-dead/

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Poster: ckj Date: Jun 22, 2013 3:00pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: DYLAN & The DEAD

Perhaps the CAGED theory allowing for different chord voicings? It opens up the verticality of guitar - both up and down the neck & from low E to high E. It gets you out of always playing open position and adds flavor to old favorites.

http://www.frettedapprentice.com/cagedsystem/

Just a theory...

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Poster: stratocaster Date: Jun 21, 2013 8:13pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: DYLAN & The DEAD

My favorite collaboration was the versions of I'll be your baby tonight at club front...love Garcia on pedal steel...

Dylan is a very sloppy musician, he's been allowed to get away with it forever...folks here have recanted stories of Garcia and Lesh getting pissed with Dylan's lack of effort/ spark...to your comment though, it was in the mid 90s that Dylan started to hit a renaissance in his career, culminating with Love and Theft in 97...perhaps it was no coincidence that he had some Dead rub off on him...guitar wise, Dylan plays the electric mostly open position, usually out of tune in the 80s, mostly cliche blues/ rock riffs, Gacias technique is that he seamlessly moved up and down the fretboard, using box positions and more ladder type positions blended together, with a lot of chromatics, Weir did a lot of partial chords with weird pull off hammer on licks and little scale riffs...his chord extensions may have rubbed off on Dylan...he may have gotten the more melodic vibe as well from the Dead...

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Jun 22, 2013 12:57pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: DYLAN & The DEAD

So true about Love and Theft. Probably the last truly great Dylan album.

Saw Dylan live in Boston in a small club on Landsdowne St. just prior to that release--it was the only time I saw him live out of at least 7 or 8 performances (inc. those w/the Dead) when he truly crushed it. Just a fantastic performance of both the L&T material AND the classics. Every other time I saw him he mumbled his way thru songs and basically phoned it in. But not at that show. Weird.

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Poster: stratocaster Date: Jun 22, 2013 1:19pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: DYLAN & The DEAD

saw him halloween 99, stellar performance, his band was great, Dylan was actually spinning around during a harmonica solo

I Am The Man, Thomas
Mr. Tambourine Man
It's Alright, Ma (I'm Only Bleeding)
Love Minus Zero, No Limit
Tangled Up In Blue
All Along The Watchtower
Simple Twist Of Fate
Stuck Inside Of Mobile With The Memphis Blues Again
Not Dark Yet
Highway 61 Revisited
Love Sick
Like A Rolling Stone
Don't Think Twice, It's All Right
Not Fade Away

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jun 22, 2013 4:05pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: DYLAN & The DEAD

Yeah, I saw him in fall, 98 and he was GREAT. Band too. Van Morrison sucked big time, his daughter as well...

But, that got me started on concerts again, having largely passed on the entire scene from 82--98 (kids were little, etc; better/more impt things to spend $$ on, etc.). IN fact, eldest son was really into Bob, so we went together in 2000 and he was v good then as well.

Bob D really got the family back into the live music scene, and our kids let us come along and sit w them even (helped that we were paying, eh?).

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Jun 22, 2013 2:01am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: DYLAN & The DEAD

Could he have meant Mixolydian? I gather Jerry played it a lot. I have no idea what it is, really, except that it's a scale and has to do with how the guitar is tuned and I guess it's related to ancient Greek and medieval scales in some obscure way, though it's not exactly the same. Here's an explanation, though it's all Greek to me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixolydian_mode

This post was modified by AltheaRose on 2013-06-22 09:01:58

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Poster: stratocaster Date: Jun 22, 2013 5:40am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: DYLAN & The DEAD

mixolydian is basically starting a major scale from the fifth note in a scale, or really it's a major scale with a flattened 7th...good call to bring this scale up...Garcia used Mixolydian all the time, in Dark Star and Fire all the time...it's a great scale to solo with and blend in some chromatic notes and you have a good basis for Garcia's approach...

however, it has nothing to do with tuning of the guitar, the Dead played with Standard tuning EADGBE

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Poster: fishercatsunflower Date: Jun 25, 2013 11:04am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: DYLAN & The DEAD

I'm sure he was referring to Modal Jamming. This means employing all the different modes: ionic, dorian, phrygian, lydian, mixolydian, aeolian, and locrian.

These modes differ as to where the minor thirds are in the scale. They each generate a different color to the music. The Dead also used it as a mechanism for switching keys.